Would you like Tezos to be distributed rightly among generations?


#63

exactly, and as they appear to be the benevolent type, of which we all understand to be the best form of government, and as I see no reason for them to not continue to be such until they lose their veto power, im 100% good with this.


#64

I didn’t realize that babies are born with titles to cars, deeds to homes, fat bank rolls, established businesses and all the trappings of a materially wealthy life.

This may be a simpleton response compared to others, but I think the question is rather pointless and leading. “Rightly” disqualifies this question in my opinion, as that is far too broad and undefined.

If Tezos is successful then inherently there will be distribution amongst a broader group. At any given point in time a company’s stock is owned by a fixed group, yet it is a given that stock will change hands. At some point only a small group of people had PayPal, gmail, Facebook, whatever accounts. Everything starts somewhere - I don’t see how that is attributed to greed.

I could make all sorts of arguments regarding Tezos as a currency and why/how an initial fixed supply makes sense, but that would be relative nonsense coming from me.

Rather, I’d remind any reader that current tezzies holders participated in a fundraiser that hopefully you expect will lead to good things for society; any monetary gain is a happy byproduct but - per our agreement when participating - is not the actual goal.

With all of that said, the real issue we need to concern ourselves with is that autocorrect changes Tezos to Texas!


#65

Oh boy, NOT AGAIN THE BENEVOLENT DICTATORSHIP ARGUMENT!!! WAKE UP, STUPID INVESTORS!!! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT TEZOS TRIES TO FIX!!!

FOR WHAT DAMNED REASON, TEZOS PROGRAMMERS ARE TRYING TO GIVE VOTING RIGHTS IN ORDER FOR THE TEZOS COMMUNITY TO DECIDE THE CODE UPDATES, AS LONG AS THOSE WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO VOTE ON IT, THEY BELIEVE IN BENEVOLENT DICTATORSHIP???

DO YOU HAVE A DAMNED CLUE OF WHAT TEZOS IS SUPPOSED TO BE?

Giving voting rights to people who believe in dictatorship! This is tottaly stupid. But stupidness always prevails in this universe. Tezos’s efforts seems futile…:tired_face:


#66

From Tezos_Overview.pdf:
“Collectively, the network maintains the decentralized aspect of blockchains while introducing a mechanism to enable collective decision making.”

For me this was precisely the reason to fund Tezos.

Also from Tezos_Overview.pdf:
“Since the early days of the Tezos network are critical, the Tezos foundation will retain a veto power over protocol upgrades for a period of one year from minting the Genesis block.”

After the initial year we are free to improve Tezos.
That is not dictatorship in any stretch of the word.
:sweat_smile:


#67

Nobody is forcing you to use Tezos or Bitcoin, and nobody is preventing you from creating your socialist-coin (which I’m convinced will fail, but it doesn’t matter what I think - we are all free to select what we want)

So, therefore there are no dictatorship in the cryptocurrency world.
It’s funny how Ethereum (and now Tezos) attracts more socialists. It seems they are turned off by Bitcoin’s limited supply of 21 million and the pow for mining them.

Money is economic energy you are saving for later. By saving, you allow other people to consume oil, wood, other commodities that could be used for instance, to build more factory to improve even more society.
Any attack to this on Tezos by preventing it to be used for saving (with your confiscation scheme to “redistribute wealth to unborn generations”) and people will use other asset for this same purpose (gold, silver or Bitcoin).

Unborn generations will have to do the same as we have done:
Work and save.
If they expect to have everything free?
Well, at least they will have that free knowledge, given to them by hard research by past generations (ours and those before us), and that’s worth a lot in itself.


#68

So, benevolent dictatorship for one year.
And then what?
Then you have to answer to the 5 (or even more!) questions.
Be prepared, stupid investors. Tezos isnt yet another benevolent dictatorship you get used to invest.


#69

Unborn generations, when they will become adults, they will simply ignore/ban your tezos. And all your savings will be lost. Be prepared for that, 18 years left.

Unless of course your are smart enough NOT to transform tezos to a hardcoded time-space asymmetric cryptocurrency. Unless you are smart enough to allocate some space for the future generations. In that case Tezos has a hope to remain alive, after 18 years. And your savings will last more than 18 years.

What kind of Tezos are you dreaming of? A tezos bubble that will explode after 18 years? If yes, then dont allocate space for the future generations, but at the same time be prepared to be punished for that. And remember, it is painful to lose all your savings when you really need them, when you are an incompetent old man.


#70

Let’s be civilized and not shout at the others :cry:

As I said before I’m not as bright as the guys who are making Tezos. I will anticipate their implementation of the voting procedure. Then, if I can contribute with improvements I certainly will, otherwise I will just vote, either through indirect voting or hopefully direct voting.


#71

You are not. But I am. And this is a open challenge, to whoever “bright” developer, to come here and talk.
To come here and clarify what their government type will be.


#72

Finally we can agree.
Please explain in plain English your ideas for governing. Use the KISS principle .


#73

Moreover, the favorite governance system of an individual is not a matter of cleverness. It is a matter of taste. You seem to like benevolent dictatorship. and this seems a really bad taste to me.

According to Aristoteles, it is in the nature of some people to remain slaves and to believe in dictators and masters. If Aristoteles is right then I dont blame you. Maybe it is not your fault, maybe it is in your genes, or maybe God gave you a slave’s soul.


#74

Vote the numbers, what else?
Vote the numbers keeps the KISS principle.

Furthermore, and apart from the vote-the-numbers thing, there is the triple vote system.


#75

You haven’t replied with any counter arguments about all I have said.
ie: economic energy, the knowledge pass over, free lunch ? etc
I’m suggesting you again: grow your amygdala.

Here is an excellent book. Funny that it is written by an author who dislike Bitcoin (Peter Schiff), but it does not matter. All good core concepts about what money in a society comes up from a commodity initially - to serve one purpose: trade and to facilitate division of labor.

With the impressive improvements done in agriculture (minus that crap they feed us from factory farms), it has facilitated a distortion of core principles about work and food. But nothing is free.


#76

I assume you mean this quote:

Of course I have answered. Read carefully ,maybe you will understand it now.
Digital money is based on consensus. The future generations will not consent that gold, silver, bitcoin or tezos is money, and all your “savings” will be lost.

If you dont allocate space for the future generation, Tezos will be considered in the future as a Tulipomania case.

Let me repeat it once again.
Digital money is based on consensus. The only way for you to own a digital currency, is when the others agree that you own it. Do you understand now why you have to take into account the future generations? I hope yes…


#77

Then explain to me why Gold has been money for over 5000 years. (And Bitcoin getting increasing interest). Wouldn’t it be rather because of their scarcity… and the network effect (which gold had plenty of time to build), and the core property that make it money: divisible, fungible, ability to be a unit of account, and of course store of value (scarcity),
It’s wasn’t adopted because of any free lunch.
You should read that book by the way.

About Governance. Ah, now I get it. You think (or hope) that “tezonians” will one day vote to have this build-in universal income free lunch into it - at the expense of other holders. Well, at least, as opposed to Bernie (and Stalin, Lenin, Mao), you are not advocating doing so with violence (guns of the government).
Here is my prediction: the majority of holders will NOT vote for this anytime in the future, AND this is the very reason why Tezos could become a store of value.


#78

GRANDPAS COOK UP SOME BRAND NEW DOUGH!

What can I explain to you?
There is only one explanation.
Stupidity is the biggest force of the Universe.
You hope that the future generations will remain stupid, as they were always been.
I hope not.


#79

not to mention the fact that in order to make it all happen, there will require some central form of government to regulate new people coming into the system. again, the majority of the holders wont go for that. otherwise people will sockpuppet-drain it dead, just like communism does everywhere it touches.


#80

#81

i have a good idea - lets play a game I like to call “i show you pictures of 2 supermarket shelves, and you tell me which system they come from”

your choices are:
A: capitalism
B. socialism
C. hurricane/natural disaster.

I understand you are at a disadvantage here, since the ones for 2 from that list are very similar. bonus points if you can tell us which 2 are so similar.


#82

I can only choose other at this moment cause I am not sure how long cryptocoins last. It doesn’t mean I don’t see the bright near future of the cryptocurrency. Most likely, in my humble opinion, cryptos will fullfill their tasks and then retire or tranform into other forms.

And to be honest, being greedy played a significant part in why I brought tezos. To see the outcome of tezos’ dynamic ledger was just another thought quickly vanished in my little brain as I pressed the sent bitcoin button. I understand your concern about the fair distribtion of tezos but your proposal was somewhat similar to the Marxism in my view. I am not criticizing your or blaming you( I am a Chinese:wink:) in any sense, I may be totally wrong about your proposal. What I am saying is the original Maxism is proved not working at all in China, the utter “fairness” of it all. The current system was developed by a few former open-minded leaders like Deng Xiao Ping and Zhu Rong Ji, who have somehow incorperated the capitalism (or parts of its machanism) into the the one being used so far. That hybrid if you will is the reason why China has been growing like crzay in the past few decades. I am actually very proud of how greedy we are right now as it avoid the untimate malfuction of the original Maxism. Now China has show some step back back in that regard that worries me quite a lot.

Future generation will, definately, pay the debts our generation have left to them. Luckily, cpytos will play a significant part in helping reducing their cost. But lets not be that optimistic as we all have witnessed the strong rejecting action in almost all regimes, no matter what machanism they are. They don’t want their cake touched. Let’s be sneaky and calm. Supporting the tech is what we should really do right now.

Lets see whether the dynamic ledger can deliver the complete code first. To see if it can really patch itself. As you have mentioned the individuality I think it’s the source of wealth. Like your proposal though.